#378 - MMP meets John Strelecky: Wie können wir besser mit Rückschlägen umgehen?

Was sind die Dinge, die ich sehen oder erleben mchte in meinem Leben? Was sind die Museumsmomente, die ich kreieren mchte? Und wo ist Geld ein Fahrzeug, um das zu ermglichen? Und das knnte helfen. Es geht nicht immer nur um mich. Manchmal ist es so, ich will in dieses Business investieren weil ich wirklich in das, sie tun, glaube Und ich bin fr sie gespannt Und ich will ein Katalyst sein, um diesem Traum zu leben.

Wir haben letztes Jahr etwas wo wir 1.000 Euro jedes drei Wochen um jemanden den Traum zu Und ich kann nicht tun, wenn ich keine Finanzen habe, um das tun.

Hallo ihr Moneypenny's herzlich willkommen zu einer neuen und ganz besonderen Ausgabe von Madame Moneypenny Meets. Denn heute habe ich einen sehr besonderen Gast. Es ist der erste Mann und vermutlich wird er auch der letzte bleiben. Es ist John Strzelecki. John und seine Bcher haben mich besonders am Anfang meiner Reise in die Persnlichkeitsentwicklung sehr, sehr geprgt, sehr inspiriert.

Das Caf am Rande der Welt kennt ihr wahrscheinlich alle und auch The Big Five for Life. Habe ich damals total verschlungen und lese sie immer mal wieder aufs Neue. Aber niemals htte ich mir damals auch nur ansatzweise ertrumen lassen, dass er mich irgendwann mal kontaktiert, mich in seinen Podcast einldt.

Das war letztes Jahr. Oder dass wir uns mal auf einem Event treffen, bei dem wir beide sind, privat auch noch austauschen und dass er auch in meinen Podcast kommt. Das alles erscheint mir immer noch weiterhin total surreal. Egal, John hat mittlerweile eine ganze Reihe von Bchern geschrieben und nun ist sein neues Buch erschienen.

Dieses hier, Zeit fr Fragen Im Caf am Rande der Welt. Darin beantwortet er 46 Fragen von seinen Fans aus seiner Community und in diesem Podcast hier haben wir auch schon fnf davon gemeinsam besprochen und er hat sie beantwortet. Wir sprechen darber, wie er berhaupt dazu gekommen ist, Autor zu werden, obwohl er eigentlich Pilot werden wollte.

Das auch fast geklappt htte. Dass das aus gesundheitlichen Grnden dann doch nicht funktioniert hat, war einer seiner grten Rckschlge seines Lebens, inklusive einem ganzen Jahr an Frust und Orientierungslosigkeit. Ihr knnt es euch vorstellen. Er erzhlt uns in diesem Podcast hier, wie er damit umgegangen ist und wie auch ihr und wir alle vielleicht besser mit Rckschlgen umgehen knnen in unserem Leben.

Wir sprechen darber, woher man wei, dass es an der Zeit ist, etwas in seiner Beziehung seinem Job oder auch an anderen Sachen in seinem Leben zu ndern. Allein das ist schon so so super wertvoller Input. Natrlich reden wir auch ber Geld. Seinen eigenen Erfolg jahrelang durch einen bestimmten Glaubenssatz selbst manipuliert, wie er dann herausgefunden hat und wie er das genau herausgefunden hat und wie er es auch repariert hat, das erzhlt er uns auch.

Auerdem geht es um die Angst, beurteilt zu werden, Angst vor zu groen Zielen, Perfektionismus, wie man damit besser umgehen kann und so so vieles mehr. Also das sind jetzt wirklich 90 Minuten die sich Sowas von lohnen fr euch reinzuhren und zwar von Minute 1 bis zum Ende vollgepackt mit tollen Geschichten von John, mit so vielen interessanten Mindsets, schnen Lebenseinstellungen, ganz viel toller Motivation und Inspiration.

Einfach genau wie dieses Buch brigens. Ja, also wer John Strzelecki kennt und schon einige Bcher gelesen hat, das hier lohnt sich auch. Das ist allerdings auch ein super Einstieg fr vielleicht die eine oder andere, die sagt, ach, den Namen schon mal gehrt, noch gar nichts von gelesen. Das ist wirklich toll.

Also er beantwortet Auch groe Fragen des Lebens, wie was ist der Sinn des Lebens und so weiter. Ziemlich easy auf ein paar Seiten, super schn nachvollziehbar. Wirklich leichte Antworten auf teilweise ein paar schwere Fragen des Lebens. Also ich freue mich sehr, dass sie dieses Buch geschrieben hat. Ist sicherlich auch ein schnes Geschenk was ihr noch unter den Weihnachtsbaum legen knnt.

Jetzt aber erstmal ganz viel Spa, Inspiration, ganz viele Aha-Momente und schne Erkenntnisse wnsche ich euch in dem Gesprch mit mir und John Strzelecki. Natrlich auf Englisch. Also ich hoffe ihr geniet die Folge so sehr, wie ich dieses Gesprch auch mit ihm genossen habe. John Strelecki, das hier ist das neue Buch und jetzt geht es ab ins Moneypenny Meets mit ihm.

John, welcome to the Own It Podcast. How are you doing today?

I'm doing great. Great to see you as always. Thank you for having me on the show.

So I'm so glad you're here. Such an honor again to talking to you. I was in your podcast and then we talked a couple times between, uh, for example, at some festival and stuff. So yeah, very, very glad you're here.

Um, so for the people maybe who don't really like, or I haven't read every book or don't really know what exactly you're doing, what is it that you do and why?

Uh, so I would say at my core, I am an adventurer. And so that part of me is the person who's out there trying to experience as much of life as possible during my minutes, um, as part of that, which is the reason people actually may be more familiar with me is I write books.

And so Das Caf am Randevelt and the Big Five for Life series of books. And uh, the new one that I just wrote are reasons that people would probably have connected with me in some way, shape, or form.

And, um, was there one moment maybe in your life, in your career, where you realized, okay, that is my calling.

That's what I want to do. Because I know you had also other dreams, right, that you weren't really able to pursue. But was there one, like, moment where you were like, I'm going to write books now. That's, that's my thing.

It more chose me than I chose it, to be honest with you. Yeah. When I was in my early 30s, I left everything behind and went and followed the adventurous dream that I had, which was to go backpack around the world.

And so I did that. And when I came back from that, I had something flow through me over the course of 21 days. And it was a very interesting experience. I just had this sense before I started, like, It's almost like a voice saying, sit down and start typing. And so I did. I sat down and started typing and this went on for 21 days.

And I never read what I had typed the previous day. I never thought, Oh, what am I going to type tomorrow? I just was very much in a state of flow. And of course, of those 21 days, this little story came through me. And, like, I could see the scenes in my mind, I could hear the characters talking, and my job was just to get it all down as fast as possible.

And that is the story that is, uh, Das Caf am Rhein der Welt, or The Caf on the Edge of the World. Yeah, but it shows me more so than I chose it, yeah.

Do you have any idea where this came from? It sounds like magic.

Yeah, well, I've thought long and hard about this because I think it's an interesting question in the context of how does life work and how does the human experience work.

And I'm at the point now where I believe my decision to leave everything behind and to follow my dream of being an adventure traveler, and especially at that phase 32, which is way late compared to most people. I think in doing that, I demonstrated to the cosmic algorithm of the universe that I was willing to take a risk and follow my dreams.

And so that was something in my favor. And then when I came back from that experience, and something inside of me said, sit down and type, that was another choice that I had to make. And so when I actually listened to that, and I sat down and type, that was another thing saying, okay, maybe he's the guy, you know, but I feel that the story was waiting to be told.

And it was looking for a writer. And there were many, many candidates, I'm sure. And I was just lucky enough to be the one at that moment who got to be part of the story.

And also to see the opportunity and to hear the opportunity and to actually take action, right? Because I think, I believe there's so many opportunities along the way, but people just don't see them.

And you saw it and you realized it.

Yeah, there's a thousand times in my life before that, I'm sure at least a thousand. Yeah. Something would have come my way, and I would have come up with rational explanations for why it wasn't the right time or why I wasn't qualified. I mean, you would, on paper, you would say, when this happened, it would have been very easy for me to say, well, I'm not an author.

Yeah, yeah. I've

never written a book before, so why would I do it now, you know? Having just come back from traveling the world in the way that I did, excuse me, you, you had no choice but to be tapped into your instincts and your intuition because you don't speak the languages, you don't know the cultures, and this is what you have to rely on.

And so luckily that channel was very, very open at that moment in my life. And so when the voice said, sit down and start typing, instead of questioning it or debating it, I just listened.

Huh. That sounds so magical.

I know. That's what I mean in terms of if we allow ourselves to embrace that, then maybe there's a whole other game going on that we don't think about in terms of the human experience.

And when I talk to people, and I would love to hear your, your answer to this. I think most people when I ask them the question, have you ever had a time when your intuition gave you some guidance?

I can't

think of a single time when someone said no. And so then we get into the discussion. So I mean for yourself, was there a time either related to the life you have now or something earlier in your

career

when you just got this ping, this knowledge?

this aha moment or this voice almost and you listened or didn't listen to it and then what happened?

Well, I can tell you when I didn't listen to it. It was not a good idea. Several times. So yeah, now that, now that you, I don't think I have this like, Maybe I wouldn't call it a voice really, but more, more like a feeling, but yeah, I know what you're saying.

Like when it just feels aligned, like when it feels aligned to start your own business, for example, or when it feels aligned to sell your business or to start another one. So like all the, or become a mom,

right?

So those are really big changes in my life. Um, all of them. um, starting selling, starting another one, becoming, becoming a mom.

Um, but I would say especially becoming a mother, I was like, I don't have any reasons, but I can tell you why. It's just me. I just want to do it. Right. Of course it's something biological going on here. Uh, but yeah, I see, I see where you're coming from. So because, so now something interesting happens in my head because, um, your, your books are.

often about like designing your life, you know, like the big five and stuff you, from my perspective, like giving guidance to designing your life, take responsibility, um, like almost like, like creating your own happiness, um, which in my head is getting a twist now for what you just said and saying like, well, I didn't, you know, I, I, all I did was listen to a voice and do it again.

I didn't really design it or did you somehow. Was it somewhere in you and just didn't come out? But I mean, you didn't sit down and we're like, my goats. I want to be an author because it was so far away from you. So where, what would you say, where does it all come together?

This is interesting, too, in that I knew one specific goal, which is I wanted to be an adventurer.

What I didn't know is what was going to happen after that. And to me, an interesting way in which the human experience is designed. And so sometimes it's necessary for us to take a leap of faith and I call this crossing the chasm. And so on the side that we're on is certainty and we know exactly what that feels like.

Yeah.

Then there's a big empty space in front of us, which is the unknown. And we don't know what that's going to feel like, but on the other side of the unknown is the place that we want to go or the experience that we want to have. And so for me, I knew what my life was like. I was a management consultant.

I lived in a particular city. I knew exactly what my life was like. What I wanted to do was to go backpack around the world and experience the world. Because there's no guarantee how long you're going to live. And I thought, well, I want to do it sooner than later. And I was already late to the game. I was already in my early thirties.

And in between was the whole chasm. I didn't know what that experience was going to be like. I had no idea what I was going to do when I came back. I mean, that was just a huge void, but I took the step to go across the chasm and then this is what gets interesting in terms of the human experience. Then something opened, which was a door to this author thing.

Now, I had always been a creative person, but I didn't realize that I was more creative than I was other things. Because you can never be inside someone else's brain. And so there's plenty of things I don't do well, but I am very creative. But only in the process of working as an author do I realize the degree to which I can be creative pretty effortlessly.

It's something that comes naturally to me. And so when that door opened, it opened up a chance for me to access a talent that I had that I just wasn't using.

Okay. So. Would you say it all comes down to the balance of like designing and having your goals, but still being open to maybe unknown opportunity?

Yeah, I think the, and this is something that I've learned in travel. So I'm familiar with the destination I want to get to

and

the way, the type of experience I want to have. So, okay, I want to do an adventure trip to South Africa, for example, and I want to see a lot of animals. That's the defined part.

Then everything in between there It's going to be based on intuition, based on conversations with others, whatever the universe brings me, random meetings with people. And so I don't map out every single step along the way because I think it's impossible to do.

But

I'm locked in on the destination and why I want to do it.

And then I'm open to the ways in which it will actually happen. Because sometimes I think we can get so locked in on the way we think it should happen that we miss the door that's already open.

And how do I know my destination then? Or what, like, I would say most people don't even have a destination.

Yeah. It's kind of tough. Where do I find it?

In the

human experience, because as we were talking about offline and sort of the starting of school and the rest of that, and I can honestly say that nowhere in my academic training did anyone ever ask me, what's the one thing even that you most want to do, see or experience while you're here on the planet?

You know, nobody said to me statistically, one out of five men won't make it to 65. So before you get to 65, you should really have done the things that you want to do just in case you don't get there. And so it's not part of the everyday conversation, at least not where I live. And so it is difficult for people to get exposed to these ideas.

Now, luckily, The access to information today is way better than it ever has been before. And so if you're curious about how do I figure out what I want to do with my life, like there's experiences that you can go through. There are tons of YouTube videos, interviews, books that can help guide you along the way.

Um, and I've done my best to create vehicles to help people figure that out. And I know that they work really well. And so that's, those are all options and available to people. The flip side of that, interestingly, is while there is all of these resources, there's also literally a million distractions out there that can keep someone from, so yeah, that's the yin and yang of our universe today.

Interesting. So, I mean, you've written some books about it. Just go read John's books like I did, for example, uh, many years ago and read them all over again. Like, uh, maybe though, maybe like every couple of years, um, I'll read your books again too, you know, because it's, it's the same book, but it's different.

Different if you know what I mean, the reading experience is different depending on what kind of life situation you're in. So speaking about

books. That connects with us actually. I'm so happy that you brought that up because there's books that I read very regularly and uh, it's always amazing to me how the content seems to have changed, but it's just that what was not relevant to me two years ago suddenly is very relevant to me today and that's you connect to on a deep level, even if we can't explain why.

Yeah, exactly. What I do, I mark, like, I mark parts that are important to me, and I use, um, different colors. So last year I used, like, yellow, and then this year I used, like, green, so I see what was interesting to me the year before, because of the color codes, and it's so interesting, it's like, oh, Yeah, that was important to me last year.

I didn't even see that sentence. So what are the books that you're reading all over again?

So I have one particular, a little book called Illusions, which was written in the 1970s. And it's one that I go back to on a regular basis. I read it every year for a long time. And I would say now for me, it's every other year or so.

But it just sort of reinforces, I remember reading it for the first time and thinking, Oh, like that's the way I want to view life. That's the way that the sort of confidence that I wish I had in going through life, that it will work out and that there's actually something bigger than just the things we see and that there's actually a plan of some sort.

And so it's kind of reassuring to go back and read it. And as you said, when I go back and look at it now, things that I've learned and have adopted into my life. And maybe, I'm not sure if mastered is the right word because we're always learning, but there's maybe a particular challenge that I faced earlier in my life and I've overcome that challenge.

I don't need to constantly do it again and again. But then the minute you overcome that, it opens up the possibility for growth somewhere else. And so there might be something new this year that only could have happened because I was able to open and walk through three different doors. But now on door four, there's going to be a different reality that I have to deal with.

So. Yeah, it's interesting and I like doing it.

And, I like what you said about the doors, because sometimes you don't even connect door 1 to door 2. Door four. Yeah. Because you're standing in front now and you're like, how did I come here? Well, there was, you know, door three, two, and one, but the connection between one and four is not always as obvious or easy.

So sometimes we don't really know, like, or I can speak about myself, like, am I doing progress or not? Like, what did the seminar give me now? Was it worth it? But we don't know how it all adds up. And then two years later, you're like, oh, wow, I have this epiphany. And maybe the root cause was two years ago, that seminar, that book you read and you didn't even realize it.

So always when, when people ask me, well, is this book worth reading? I was like, every book is worth reading, like every, like every investment into yourself is always worth it because you don't know what it actually does. does, uh, to you in a like very, very positive way. And then it all adds up all the different books and all the insights and all the, I don't know, conversations with different people.

And then it all makes sense, but you don't even know that this book you read 10 years ago actually started it. So,

yeah, you're totally right. I, I wrote about a piece in, in, I think it's in the third cafe book. Uh, the idea of each piece of information or knowledge or insights that we get is a drop in our bucket.

And when our bucket is very empty, kind of at the start of our journey, or when we've hit a low point in life, maybe that that piece of knowledge is just like a big empty ping sound in the bottom of this metal bucket. And the person who gave us that may feel bad about that, like, Oh, geez, you know, they didn't really get it, or it's not really helping them.

But each of those drops in aggregate becomes the the filling of our bucket and then at some point that last drop goes in and that last drop is the one that overflows the whole bucket and that's monumental moments of transformation that we experience. To your point, that can't happen if it wasn't for the thousands of other drops that were there earlier.

Yeah. And it's interesting because to your question, now that I'm thinking about it and reflecting on it, and this is in your, one of your areas of expertise, I would say one of the other things that I go back to more often now than I did before was my relationship with money and my relationship with creating abundance.

Uh, and that's something that. You know, if you don't go back to that regularly, I would say as the rest of these doors are opening, you can find yourself in a very uncomfortable place. And I know from personal experience that that has happened numerous times in my life. And so having a strong awareness in that arena of life can be a very useful tool.

And if it requires going back to a book or two books every year, it's well worth doing.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Like, totally. So since we're at money right now, should we talk about money

before we come back to your new book? But since we're talking about money now, so what, what role does money play in your life? Like, what, what is it for you?

So it's a means to an end. I know that some people view it as the game itself. And so like Warren Buffett, for example, the great investor views it as like, it's just a game.

And so the game is how big of a pile can I build? And that's the way he views it. For me, I view it as what are the things that I want to do, see, or experience in my life? What are the museum moments that I want to create and where is money a vehicle to help me enable that? And that could be helping. It's not always about me either.

Sometimes it's, Oh, I want to be able to invest in this year, this person's business because I really believe in what they're doing and I'm excited for them and I want to be a catalyst to help that dream come to life. Um, we ran something last year where we were contributing a thousand euro every three weeks to fulfill someone's dream.

Oh wow. that if I don't have the finances available to do that. And so a healthy relationship with money was something that I struggled with for a long, long time. I finally had a major epiphany a bunch of years ago and that shifted me. But I would say it held me back dramatically in terms of, living the life that I wanted to live.

Okay. Would you like to share, to share that moment?

Yeah, sure. I, it was, I had this belief that, uh, if you had money, if you had achieved a degree of wealth, that you must have ripped someone off, that you must have cheated someone. It was something that I was told when I was young.

And

so people that were well off wealthy, like they could still be very nice people, but they must have done something like, you know, Something, if not necessarily illegal, something a little bit shady to have achieved that.

And so, you know, so much of our belief systems are things that we absorb as a child because we don't have a filter that's an adult filter to look at these, these things through. And in my family trajectory, my family history, we came from abject poverty. Like my, my grandparents were immigrants, they had nothing when they came.

And I'm sure the lens through which they looked at people's lives was very, very different Because of the way that they were living. And so this kind of just passed generation to generation. And so the problem with that kind of belief is that, I held a deep desire to be a person of contribution. I wanted to make a positive difference in the world.

And the challenge is that the more you make a positive difference in the world, people are going to say thank you in some capacity. And in this day and age, very often they will say thank you in the form of money. So if you write a great song, they're going to want to download that song. And every time they do, your bank account is going to go up.

If you write a great article or put a great piece of YouTube content out there. And every time people watch it, YouTube is going to deposit money to your bank account. And so this is a very interesting dilemma that I didn't realize was sitting out there. And so as I would become more successful by doing good stuff, I would start to feel uncomfortable.

And I was feeling uncomfortable because as my bank account would go up, I would think, oh, I must be ripping people off. And so I had to finally deal with this uncomfortability. And the way I did it, which has proven very helpful for me, is I just found two data points that proved my belief system was wrong.

And so I said, Oh, let me think of two people who I really, really admire that are really doing great things and who actually have achieved wonderful degrees of wealth. And when I had those two people in my mind, I could no longer hold this erroneous belief system anymore. And so that was just like, it was unbelievable, honestly, Natasha, it was like one day I went from having 30 some years of belief to wait, that was wrong.

It was crazy how fast I could change it.

So interesting, right? Like, I mean, now you know that it was a belief, but back then you thought it was a fact. I mean, if we knew that it was all about beliefs and well, I have this belief and this belief, then it's, you know, it's quite easy, but actually figuring out, realizing, oh, wait, this is not a fact.

This is actually just me. That's the epiphany, right? And then you can go about it. Then you can handle it. Okay. So what changed after that? Like, did you earn more money or was it just the feeling that came with it both?

First of all, I was more open to possibilities that would result in financial wealth being a part of the storyline.

And so that was a piece of it. And second of all, I just stopped sabotaging my own success. Like I wouldn't. History before that was I would achieve up to a certain point and then I would either just quit whatever I was doing. I'd quit the business or I'd leave. The opportunity that I was in the middle of and everybody would look at me and be like, what are you doing?

Like you've worked so hard to get to that point. And it's really on the verge of being tremendously successful. Why are you leaving now? And I always had just an excuse. I don't even remember what the excuses were. Oh, I'm bored with it. Or, Oh, I just feel interested in this other thing. But in truth, it was this belief system that was the reason I was doing it.

I didn't even understand that though. So it's crazy how, like I said, you can hold something for decades and like you said, you treat it as a fact when in truth, it's just a belief and it's an erroneous belief. It's a wrong belief.

Yeah. And it keeps you from, so like from actually, What you actually want to achieve, right?

So I think this, this belief is very, very common, right? Like if I'm successful, if I'm rich, I must be, you know, what did you say? Ripping people off or something. But the flip side is only if you like have money, you can do good with it as well, right? You can only give whatever you have. So if you want to do good in the world, get some money to be able to do it, right?

Money is neither good nor bad. That's the takeaway. Exactly.

It's what you do with it. Yeah,

it's exactly right. It's what you do with it. And sadly, in our very, very social society that we are now, with social media being as dominant as it is, I would say You're on a, on a percentage basis. You're probably going to see more information about what people are doing with it that is destructive than constructive.

And

that's on us as individuals then to say, Oh, you know what? Instead of watching about how someone who is very, very wealthy is doing something destructive. Let me find examples of people who are doing wonderful things. with their wealth. Yeah. Ellen DeGeneres, who was a talk show host in the US for many, many years, a comedian, built this amazingly beautiful center with her partner in Africa for gorillas, gorillas in the mountains.

Yeah. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that.

So, you know, you only need a couple of examples like that to say, wow, how cool is that? Like if she had no money. Then all this amazing gorilla preservation is not happening and that someone who loves animals and loves adventure would be a travesty in my opinion. So that's the unique challenge for us is to say, okay, where are the examples of people doing amazing things?

And can I adjust my own belief system so that I can be a part of that? I can be a contributor towards good things.

Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly how it is. What would you like, how do you personally see the discussion around money buys happiness or doesn't buy you happiness? How do you see that?

Yeah. So interesting that you use the word happiness, um, because we were talking at the start, part of the reason that we get a chance to hang out together is because, uh, the book that I just wrote about the 46 questions and the dominant set of questions that came to me and Natasha was around happiness.

And so different variations of it. Probably seven different variations of it. The one that I included in the book, I included two, but it was how do I have more happiness in my life? And I have yet to find an example with someone who wants to have more happiness. And when I get to the depth where I understand what happiness means to them, I've yet to find an example where they couldn't do something with very little money if not no money.

Like a conversation with a friend typically costs you nothing. Now you might be in a cafe and you get a coffee or a smoothie so there's a little bit of money. Or reading your favorite book or going for a bike ride. These things in general don't require a lot of money. Again, maybe a little bit but not a lot.

And so I think there are plenty of ways to bring happiness into your life. Which don't require a lot, a lot of money. That said, if you want to do something that is on your life list that you just think would be extraordinarily cool, that does require money, it's nice to have the mindset that you can actually do that and make that happen.

Um, I would say no, it's not necessary, but it's nice to have it. So sure.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Interesting that you were talking about what, what happiness is when I think about, um, what money means to, I would say the majority of my, um, customers go through our, um, programs it's probably safety actually. So now I'm wondering, does money buy you safety?

And it kind of does. does, you know, maybe the, the safety or the peace, the peace of mind to know, okay, well, it's, I, I'm sad. Yeah. I'm, I'm good. I'm well off. Uh, my children are also, um, you know, if my, um, uh, my, uh, the, the assets for my children and stuff. So I think, and for some reason this, for me, it's part of, being happy as well.

Well, actually, maybe the basis for me to say, well, what do I want to do now? Like this stuff is done. Yeah. So I know I have a job. I, I earned my money. I save some money. I invested. Oh, it's all good. I just. I know if I just keep going like this, I'm all fine. Then I have so much headspace to actually think about, okay, well, what do I know?

What do I do now? Like, where do I go on this adventure? Or do I book the nice travels? Um, so yeah, for me, I think money is, is definitely Like part of it. Um, and yeah, in the way that it takes away, um, yeah. Some dark thoughts maybe Right. . So, okay. What happens if, what happens if, what happens if, um, yeah. And if I can just say, well, then.

It's all right. I can cover it. That gives, I think that that gives a certain peace of mind,

and I think that one of the common trends that I see, or common belief systems that I see in people, or the fear is that they're going to be, this is something, especially in the states, this exact expression, yeah, I'm going to homeless, living under a bridge someday like that is this great fear that, yeah.

Yeah.

Which is so weird because how many people do you know, doesn't happen are living homeless in bridge. Like I, yeah. You know. I can't say that that's the norm for anybody that I actually know. Yeah. And when I was reflecting on this and thinking about this, I don't know exactly where that belief or that fear comes from, other than maybe at some point we as a child, again, when we're, we have this different lens through which we look at the world, see that person when we're on a walk with our parents or on a school trip, whatever, and implanted in us is like, Oh, that's really sad.

And then that's, don't be like that. And, or maybe our parents in their best interest are like, Oh, explaining to us what that is and how that person got there because they didn't have enough money and that plants this little seed in us. But interestingly, as I study more and more of history, there are no guarantees that just because you have wealth means you're going to always keep that wealth.

Much more enabling is, are you comfortable knowing how to make money? And this then comes back to the happiness piece and also comes into many other questions that are which is the path to being successful, in my opinion. is when you allow yourself to let your genius out into the world. Everybody has unique gifts.

Everybody has unique talents. It doesn't mean everyone should be an entrepreneur. Certainly people who are drawn to that, that's a great fit. But it might mean that you're just lending your talents and your interests in an existing company. And here's an example of that. If you love, um, doing, let's say, accounting work, right, which is not one of my personal favorites, so that would not be my dream job, but let's say that you love accounting work and you also love kayaking, then get a job being an accountant in a kayaking company, or in a job, a company that deals with outdoor sports equipment.

That little combination of the two where you're taking this thing that you know how to do and you're blending it with your passions and your interests, dramatically changes the minutes of your life that you're happy about. And so now you've checked the box on, do I know that I love? Yes. Awesome. That's a huge accomplishment in life.

Two, am I spending as many minutes as possible doing the things that I love Monday through Friday? Because that is like a huge chunk of time. Yeah. Yes. If you do that. And again, this goes back to something that nobody ever explained to me. I don't know how I missed this. If it was taught, I don't really think it was taught.

And the idea is that. Allowing yourself to do a job that you genuinely love to do, it's somehow tied to the things that you do on the weekend when you have free time. Uh, and if you do that because you like the job, you're going to be better at it than most people. And if you're better at it, they're going to pay you more.

This is just the way the world works. And so it's a wonderful trajectory towards success.

Yeah, definitely. And I think maybe it's maybe started with my generation or just just coming up that I feel like it's, it has also become like a huge pressure situation for people to find their passion in their job.

So I'm trying to take a step back and ask the question, okay, do you really, Is that really necessary? Or can you just, you know, work in an okay job that you of course don't hate, but it's not like your passion passion, and finance your passion that you do after work on the weekends or in the evenings or whatever.

So because I feel like a lot of people are like, yeah, I need to pursue my passion in my job. And at the same time, I'm like, well, maybe you don't have to, you know, find a job that's cool, that you like. If you score one, that's really, you know, that is your passion, okay, cool, but if it's not a hundred percent your passion and it's still a good job, I mean, you can just be happy and satisfied with it and, uh, don't go down the dark rabbit hole of, oh, I'm a loser because I'm not pursuing my passion in my job, um, where would you say is, It's the line between like those two perspectives.

Yeah, you're doing so many hours. It has to be a passion. And on the other side, people are being under so much pressure to pursue their passion that they're like, Oh, I don't even know what direction to move.

Yeah. The, I agree with you. There is this, uh, and I think it's in part again, because social media, it's very easy to look at.

Screenshots of people that appear to be right that they love that

have it all. Yeah. Yeah. And so

you can, you can get yourself into this dark spiral of self judgment, the judgment piece. Uh, if you're going to do self evaluation in my, from my personal perspective, it should never be, how am I doing compared to how everyone else is doing?

Right. How am I doing compared to what I'm capable of doing? Everybody has different talents, different interests, different skills. And so, but to your specific question associated with that, let me just throw a couple of thoughts that came to mind. One is if I can say to myself, Oh, I'm willing to do this job that I don't really love because it enables me to then fund my passions on the weekend.

Then by default, the person knows what the passions are, or at least their interest because they've already got that.

So in that case,

why not keep the resume open? Why not put the feelers out there to. to do it. Now, I don't think it's worth beating yourself up in the process of saying, Oh, I'm such a failure.

You know, I'm not there yet. No, no. Life is a constant evolution. And if you're in a job that is successfully funding the activities that you love to do on the weekends, hey, you're ahead of the game. And so there's four steps in the game if you want to keep playing, which is, Oh, and how about now, if you take those skills and align them even more with your passion Monday through Friday, great.

That's a step in the right direction. Uh, but don't beat yourself up because you're not there yet. To your point, that would just be an endless frustration every single day. You'd wake up in the morning feeling depressed and you'd go to bed feeling depressed. That's not the way to go through it.

Yeah. I love what you said about the, the next steps because sometimes I feel like also the woman in my community, either it's either I'm very, very happy or I'm not.

I'm, you know, I'm losing at the game of life, but, you know, taking another step closer, closer, closer, that's, that's enough. That's really, really good progress. You don't have to go from zero to a hundred. And I think, you know, women, perfectionism and stuff, there's all, there's so many also beliefs that, that keeping so many women back from actually taking the first step.

Like the first door to the fourth door, and they don't do it because they're like, well, but that's not my 100 goal. It's not like the next step is not achieving my 100 goal. And then they just stand there and don't do anything because they don't allow themselves to actually grow it. In the process, you know, go to the first door, go to the second door, you learn skills, you have a new network, you're, you're not the same version at door one anymore.

So yeah, I love that what you said, um, that it's not like it's, um, again, there's a balance, right? It's like, in what direction are you moving? And if you're moving in the right direction that, that suits you, that makes you feel good, then, uh, that's all you can do. Right. And someday you will, right. You'll be there and then you're like, okay, what's next?

Right? I mean, the question is like, when is the end ever? There's probably none because then you, you, you arrived there and you're like, well, yeah, that's, it's nice here. So, so what's next? So I think it's, yeah, it's, it's all in the process.

Indeed, and I love that perspective and I've had that epiphany in my own life.

I used to be a professional beach volleyball player and all I did was train to be a champion

and,

you know, hours and hours of training and years and years of training to, to win a championship. And I remember the first championship when we won it, uh, my partner and I, and it was such a fleeting experience.

You know, we, we hugged each other, we give high fives, we were just so excited. And then it was over, like literally in five minutes from being the champion to, okay, where are we going out to dinner? What's going on the rest of today, tomorrow? And so if you don't enjoy the process of the experience of whatever you're learning and building, you'll find, and I say this from personal experience, you'll find that the victories end up being quite shallow and quite short compared to what you were expecting.

I don't know what I was thinking when I was training for two years, thinking what it would be like to finally become a champion, but it was way bigger in my head than it ended up being in reality. And so, Then I changed my perspective. I said, I'm going to just go out there and enjoy the game for the sake of the game.

It doesn't mean I don't want to win again. I do, but I enjoy the process as much as I enjoyed the victory itself. There was a question that was related to what you're just describing, so let me talk about that for a second. The question in the book is, how do I know when it's the right time to change my job or change my relationship?

Yes.

This ties into when people have so many different options, they struggle with making a decision. And I try and use very simple metrics, whether it's in regard to money, as we were talking about before, or in regard to major life decisions. And so for this one, my advice was, if you look at your life and whether it's your job or your relationship, and you can honestly say that on a scale of one to 10, it's a six.

Then, the fact that you can say it's a 6 means you know what an 8 or a 9 or a 10 feels like. Otherwise, you would say, I don't know what it is on the scale. This alone is very empowering because it means you actually know where you are and you know what it could look like on the other side of that. And then the chance, the choice for yourself is to say, well, am I, am I worthy of better than a six?

You

know?

And of course everyone is worthy of more than a six in a relationship, in a job, in an activity. And so then, okay, I'm, I'm worth more than a six. And I know that things better than a six out there. So what are the steps to get there? And what makes it more than a six? And so if it's a job change, asking people who really just seem to love their job, what is it they love about that job?

And when you hear them telling their story, what makes it sound better than a six to you? Is it, Oh, look at the flexible hours or, Oh, I can work part time at home, part time in an office. Or is it that I worked the whole time in the office? And that sounds amazing because it's with collaborative people.

And I like that better than working alone. So by asking yourself, what is it that make something better than a six, it starts to give you very obvious clues about the direction you ideally would like to move. And this applies to relationships as well. If you, and here's the big takeaway. If you know that it's a six, uh, it's probably a six for the other person too.

Like they, they may not be vocalizing, but you know, they deserve better than a six and you deserve better than a six. And so allowing yourself to just say, listen, you're a good person. I'm a good person. This just isn't. what we both want. Let's, let's move on to some of the easiest decision making that you can do in life.

Um, because it's very easy to just keep going in a loop. And the next thing, you know, five years have gone by, you're still in that. Exactly.

You don't even notice. I know. Well, five years. Okay. Pretty much down the drain because we're both unhappy. Yeah,

exactly. Yeah. And

then, you know, what you, what you said in the beginning, like, Life ends.

So what do you want to, uh, what do you want to spend your time with? Interesting. I love that. I mean, I'm, I'm a very analytical person. Okay. Yeah. I can see if it's like one number it is. Yeah. That's, uh, that's such a good perspective, especially what you said. If you know, it's what's a sick, that it's a six, then you have your scale and you know, what, what a 10.

should look like and you can go about it. And maybe you also find out, well, it's actually not that bad. I feel like some people, or, or it's always easy to always to, um, yeah, focus on the bad, um, aspects of a job or of a relationship or whatever. But if you just, if you like sit down and reflect on like, what is it that makes a great relationship for me?

Oh, I actually have this. I actually have that. I actually have that. Maybe just, maybe I, maybe it's an eight from 10, but just maybe it, didn't feel like that for the last four weeks. Um, whatever the outcome is, I think it's, it's, it's such a great tool to make a decision, right? And to see, okay, well, either it's, it's okay, or we should change something like right now.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that perspective of gratitude. Gratitude is something that unfortunately has been talked about so much. It's, it's almost become a little bit. Um, not passe, exactly, but it's a word that's learned so much, it's like people dismiss it.

Yeah,

yeah. You know, I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I read a piece and I'm like, Oh, I got it.

Gratitude. I don't want to underestimate just how amazing a tool it is to step back and you're talking about. So if it's a job or a relationship to say, okay, so let me be super honest with myself. What are the things that I don't like about this, but what are the things that I'm actually super grateful for as it relates to this?

Uh, and this is really interesting in terms of consumer behavior. People are, I think, seven to ten times more likely to talk about a negative experience than a positive experience when they do customer reviews or when they're talking about, oh, what was your experience with that product to someone that's a friend?

And I think the takeaway from that is that. piece of psychology is maybe we do some of that in our own life as well. So maybe we gloss over the good stuff quite quickly, assuming that that's what it's supposed to be. But if we allow ourselves to actually take a step back and be really appreciative and grateful for those things and realize, well, just cause it is doesn't mean it's supposed to be like, it's actually a pleasure that it's there.

Um, that can reframe, as you said, the reality that we think we're experiencing.

Especially what you said, um, about social media, right? Mm-Hmm. Like, I have this exposure to all the great lives. So is it my 10 or is it actually like, mm, a 10 of someone I think , you

know? Mm-Hmm. .

It should be a 10. Uh, or is it my mom?

There's my scale being developed. Yeah, like, to really tune in and say, okay, what do I want? Not what should I be wanting, according to my mom or whatever. I think that's, if you have this, if you have this scale for your true self, that's, that's That's great. I think that's, that's really good to have.

Yeah.

And so when it comes to decision making, I think those are great tools to help people overcome this mass of information that is out there. At the end of the day, it comes down to, to going in to being introspective and ourselves. How is this working out for me in the life that I want to live? Uh, yeah. And therefore, am I going to make a change or not?

And I will say in terms of change, because for many years I worked in the change management fields, the toughest thing about a change is before you make the change. It's always easier after. We always build it up to be something that's so, so big, and then afterwards, it isn't nearly as big as it actually turned out we thought it was going to be.

And, uh, so, and this is good to take a step back and reflect on other times in your life when you've made changes, and maybe you did that same thing. Before you made that change, you thought it was going to be easy. Monumental in terms of its impact, you, the people around you, and it didn't turn out to be that monumental, uh, and everything worked out okay.

And sometimes that's kind of like what we were talking about earlier of reading the book and realizing, oh, that's why that was important to me two years ago. I think in life too, reflecting on times when we've already done something that we're thinking about doing now in terms of a change or demonstrating a behavior and realizing, oh, we're actually better at that than we give ourself credit for.

And oh, it's not as dramatic as we're making it out to be. That can be useful as well.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And actually, um, that's, uh, that's another question I wanted to ask you. Well, actually, it's all in your book, right? So that's, that's a new book.

Where you answer how many questions? Like,

46 questions. 46 questions. A very random number.

A very random number. Some very deep, most of them actually, actually, uh, very deep. And um, the one I wanted, I wanted to ask you, you just answered, right? Like, how do you know if, uh, if, uh, it's the right time to, to make a change in my job relationship, um, or other things.

Um, another one that I found really interesting that also kind of connects with that, what we just talked about, how can I overcome the fear of being judged? Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, this is something that is very, very present today. Maybe it's always been present. I don't know. It's hard to look in the rear view mirror and remember what it was like 25 years ago these days.

But this fear of being judged, I think is a very primal thing. If you look at the story of humanity. Way, way back in the day, we banded together as tribes of people because that meant security and that meant safety. We were dealing with natural environments that were so much more treacherous. There were saber toothed tigers and there were woolly mammoth.

There were creatures that were so much bigger and faster and stronger and deadlier than we were. And so we banded together to work together as a community. And one of the worst things that could happen in that situation was being on your own. Because now you're out there against the elements, you're out there against the creatures, trying to do it all on your own.

And I think within our DNA, within our cell structure, is this fear of doing it alone. And because of that, we tend to conform. We We go through school, we go through the experience of being a teenager, and all of a sudden hormones kick in, and it's about trying to be attractive to someone, and it's about trying to fit in, and again we've got this old cellular code inside of us, and so when you're four, You wear whatever you want to wear because you like it.

You know, the kids are awesome at this. They're like, oh, I want to wear the one with the pink polka dots on it because I love

that shirt.

You know, or the unicorn on it. And they really don't care what the other kids think about that shirt. And the other kids probably don't care about the shirt you're wearing either.

But then there does come a point where you start to see that switch and transition. And so now people start adjusting their behavior and adjusting their belief systems to try and fit in. And this is a great opportunity for human growth, for all of us, because we no longer have to be fitting in. to the tribe that is close to us for security and safety.

It's really not necessary, not in the world in which we live in anymore. Instead, if you really want to be part of a tribe or a community, you can actually define the tribe or community that you want to be a part of. Maybe you love, um, Uh, rollerblading, maybe you love being on scooters, maybe you love rock climbing, maybe you love baking Philippine, uh, sweetbread.

It doesn't really matter what your passion is. You can find a tribe these days that is also equally excited about that, where you're a very welcome member of that tribe because you have the same passions and things that you care about. And so I think it's a great opportunity to allow ourselves to let that go.

That fear of judgment from others is based on cell stuff and it's based on behavioral stuff that we often see in movies. This is one of the other things that just sort of fascinates me. When you watch movies, Natasha, it's amazing how you see the character who doesn't quite fit in, in the movie, and then they're always ridiculed by the in group.

Yeah, yeah, like in real life.

Yeah, that is like every, every sort of teen growth movie has that as part of the storyline. And so you start to think that that's true. You start to think, Oh my gosh, if I don't fit in, I'm going to be the one who is ridiculed.

And

while there is certainly some of that in our everyday society, it is not nearly as much or the intensity of what you see in the movies or in books for that matter, that are sort of those stories.

And so part of it is looking at the lens of life through a lens of accuracy instead of this false perception that we get. So movies and books are written that way because it creates more drama and the drama makes it more exciting and that's what we like in our entertainment, but that's not necessarily based on reality.

So my suggestion would be look at life the way it is, not the way we might believe it to be based on false input, which is data that is coming from the entertainment world, not based on reality.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's so true. That's so, so hands on. It's a really hands on tip. Like look at, look at life the way it is, choose your, choose your data points.

And also I think, you know, I feel like everyone, well. probably, yeah, kind of everyone, um, is so afraid of being judged. And yet everyone has so much to do with their own self. Like, we're so concerned with ourselves that we don't even have time to judge others. I mean, I think people, people who are busy, people who have stuff in their life, people who have, you know, projects and stuff, they don't really judge people because they don't the time and energy to, you know, judge the outfit of some random people in the subway, I think.

So again, it's like, who, as you said, who's my tribe, right? Who's my tribe. And if I find my tribe, um, they are not judging me and every, everyone else, what do I care? You know, what do I care if some random woman or man or whoever doesn't like my outfit or doesn't like my job or doesn't like the way I talk or my haircut or whatever.

Um, so yeah, I love that perspective on, like, what is life actually like and also who, like, what group of people is your tribe and who do you want to belong to? Because the other people that judge you, you don't want to belong to them. Let them judge you. Like, who cares?

In the second cafe book, there's a great conversation between Casey and Jessica, and Jessica shares a realization from that conversation.

And she says, I realized I was desperately trying to be part of a tribe that I didn't even want to be part of.

Yeah. And isn't that sad? Isn't that sad realizing, oh, I'm now part of the tribe. I don't even like it here.

Yeah, exactly. And so that's one wonderful piece of asking ourselves, well, why do I want to be part of that?

Oh, well, that seems to be this. And those people seem to have that. But the more you dig under the covers, you realize that. It's not usually the, the perception is not the reality in most cases.

Yeah.

I think personal growth is a wonderful thing. I think if your friends treat you in a way that is nonjudgmental, then those are probably the real friends that you have.

And the other people, like they're jealous of you for something, or they have their own issues that they're dealing with or whatever, but I wouldn't allocate a lot of time and energy to that. And this is harder and harder to do these days, especially if you have a platform When you have a platform, whether it is a book with people that can write reviews or, you know, if you're interviewed by someone and then there's comments available about the interview, trust me, the people that don't like you and don't like what you do, they're going to be the first ones to get on there and write commentary.

Oh yeah,

yeah.

And so it's very easy to get sucked into this, uh, oh my gosh, I can't believe that's the state of, of that person's opinion of me. But what I've discovered in life is that no matter what you do, or how good you do it, or how pure your intentions, there's going to be five to seven percent of the people that just don't like it.

They don't like you, they don't like what you do. And in all likelihood, it has nothing to do with you. It's challenging their own belief systems. Maybe they've been in a job that's absolutely horrible for 15 years, and then they hear you and I talking about that you can actually change that job.

Yeah.

Well, if they actually decide to make that change on an unconscious level, they have to deal with the fact that for 10 to 15 years, they could have made the change already. And they've endured all this pain and this hardship and this frustration because they didn't make the change. Sometimes people are more than happy to just blame you, the person in the interview and say, well, no, it's not as easy as you say.

Mm-Hmm. Because they don't wanna deal with the pain.

Yeah. But that has nothing to

do with you, that has to do with that and their story. So I think that's part of the path to success with this not being judged either, is allowing yourself to only look at the things in terms of feedback that are the, the, the people that you admire and that you want to actually genuinely get feedback from.

Yeah, I just one situation is just popping in my head where it just it happened to me as well. Right. So I get I had this, um, I was at event I should, um, uh, I was the keynote and stuff like real, real big stuff. And I brought my kid with me because. And there was no other way on that particular Saturday and I was imagining, okay, yeah, well, I had someone to, to play with the kid and stuff.

So they were just playing and I go and do my, do my speaking. Well, it didn't happen. The end result was I was on the stage for like 50 minutes with my kid in my arm and, you know, being all over me and stuff. And people loved it. Yeah. They were like, Oh, wow, this is what we need to see, you know, visibility of working moms and stuff.

And so cool. You did it anyway. But one, just one, one woman was like, was shaming me. Uh, she was like, wow. Natasha was on, well, what a disappointing keynote. Natasha was on stage for 15 minutes, but actually was just asking, uh, asking the crowd for eight minutes, um, if someone could, you know, play with her child.

I was like, what? So what? But this comment helped me awake at that night. I was like, What is, what is going on? Right. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, it's a theory and then, you know, uh, taking it, uh, taken, uh, actually like get it like, what, what am I looking for? Theory. And how do you

apply it? Exactly.

Yeah. How do you actually apply it?

So it's not that easy, but, um, yeah, probably you can, you can practice this as well.

So I'll give you, I'll give you a technique that has worked for me. Cause I, Oh yeah. I'm a hundred percent. So one is having just an awareness of it helped me. And so I decided that if I was going to focus on the one, I was going to focus on the right one.

And so to your point, if the vast majority of people appreciate it, love it, are grateful for it, then I'm going to focus on one of those people. And the question is, what's the tactical practice that I can do that? So one is never go back and reread the negative commentary because the minute you read it, it's.

Yeah. And then you're trying to get it out of your head, but you're trying to go to sleep and it's the last thing you're thinking about. And as we talk about the brain, for whatever reason, if you're not careful, it will remember the negative versus the wonderful 10, 15, 100 comments that were also there.

And so I just don't read it. That's something I've had to learn to do. And it's, it's taken years to get comfortable with that. The second is, I set a rule in place. And so if I read it, right, so I break my own rule of not reading it, but if I actually read it, then I have to do something. There has to be some sort of consequence.

And so my rule is if I read it and I let it get into my head, I have to do 10 good things for the other side. And so I can write 10 reviews for books that I love. I can write 10 comments on something in a positive way, but I have to offset the fact that I let my mind. Take control of what I knew to be true

by

adding a positive contribution into the world.

Oh, that's, I love that.

Yeah, so something as simple as that, uh, has helped me reframe my behavior in a positive way. Because it's crazy. I did the math on this and I can't remember the exact numbers, but I think the, the mathematical offset of a one star review is something like 78 five star reviews. It's a crazy big number.

So when someone brings their toxicity of just, Oh, I hate this one star review. It is up to the rest of us that actually love that to take the moment and put the five star review out there because it requires a lot to offset mathematically a one star review.

Oh, that's beautiful. I like that a lot.

Actually, the backstory to that woman I was talking about, because, you know, I was like, what is going on with her? So I researched in our like, company, like history stuff, emails and stuff. And actually, the backstory is, she invited me to her festival, and I didn't want to come. So that was then.

There you go.

Exactly. I was like, ah, now it makes sense. And at that minute I was like, okay, now, now I know why she, you know, why, why she wrote that comment. And the minute I could, I was just, okay, that's it. I let it go. So I needed that explanation. Like, what is she actually, um, putting onto me? And that second it was, it was done.

I was like, right now I didn't, I don't even. recall, well, I know who it was, but I don't really know the exact words or something. But in that night, I did exactly that. I read it again and again. It's like, what am I going to answer? What am I going to say? What is your problem? Yeah, we're desperate.

The brain is desperate to figure out the answer.

Like that's exactly,

yeah.

Right. The answer is what we're seeking. Yeah. The answer might be as simple as you can't please everyone. Or the answer is probably, which it was in your case, Yeah. This actually has nothing to do with you. Exactly. That person's fear of rejection and the fact that you didn't want to go to their conference made them feel rejected, which ties to the childhood experience when they were six years old and they felt rejected, which has nothing to do with you and nothing to do with me.

You're never as a human being going to be able to solve all of those things. And the other piece of this, which is a huge one, Um, this goes to another question, which is what is the cosmic algorithm of the universe? I have learned over time that there is a very interesting game going on. So my allocation of time and energy is sending inputs into the cosmic algorithm.

Um, and so if I allow myself to reread that question, that is a. Or reread the negative comment and I'm reading it again and again and again. Then much like typing something into Google 50 times and then getting more of that back from Google, I am sending into the cosmic algorithm, oh, this is important to him.

This negative stuff is what he's really interested in. And from an algorithm perspective, algorithmic perspective, well then I'm going to get more of that, get more of that. That's just the way the system is designed. So I also often think about that, that, oh. Am I actually now contributing to the very thing that I want less of in my life?

Or am I spending my time and energy on the things that I want more of? And that's where that offsetting with 10 comes into play. Because now I feel like, hey, not only am I doing something good for people that I like and admire, I'm also sending the message into the cosmic algorithm of this is what I want more of in my life.

And I do feel based on my actual life experiences, you get more of that back.

Because you focus on it and you put more energy in it.

Yeah, I don't know exactly how it works with the mechanics behind it, but it does seem very similar to any other algorithm in terms of what you put in is what you get back out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very interesting. I mean, it's also like what you like, what you, I mean, if you're in a bad mood and you keep yourself in a bad mood, it's going to get worse, right? It's going to get worse and worse and worse. So I mean, that's, it's just compounding somehow. Yeah. Um, so, uh, we asked the community, our money pennies, we asked them about, uh, questions for you and there were several of them.

But there was one cluster, interestingly, um, about or around, um, uh, overcoming obstacles, dealing with setbacks. How do you do it? Like, do you have like maybe one, one, uh, story from, from your lifetime, um, where you had to overcome a big obstacle or had to deal with a big, big setback? Um, and what, what did you do about it?

How did you go about it?

Yeah, so this actually is written out at length, and so I will tell you the abbreviated version because this came up with the question of how did you become an author in the book. And so, um, I don't know if you've had a chance to read that one yet or the people who are listening to this yet, but it is a story that is filled with disaster.

And so, uh, my dream was to be a pilot. I took every penny I'd ever earned from working three jobs. from the time that I was 12 years old, up until I was going all the way through university to pay for this, this desire to be a pilot. And it invested all of that, all of my energy, all of my education into this dream.

And then because of something that was completely out of my control, it was taken away from me. And so I went from feeling like, Oh, I've done everything that I could to achieve this dream. And I've done it all in the right sort of ways. I haven't cheated anyone. I'm keeping my best efforts. I've worked super hard.

And then Natasha to just see it taken away, you know, it's because of a thing that had never been diagnosed and it's super rare and it only matters if you want to be a pilot or an astronaut. And here I was trying to be a pilot. And so that was devastating for about a year after that experience, I was just in a deep, deep depression and trying to figure out why the whole world was against me and why the universe was against me.

And I, I probably said this is unfair a thousand times, at least over the course of that year. And what I realized was a couple of things. One is it didn't matter whether it was fair or unfair. It was my reality. And I was either going to stay at the bottom where I was, or I was going to start climbing myself out.

And That also didn't seem fair. I remember thinking, yeah, but I didn't put myself down here. Like I tried super hard to get up here. Yeah. Matter. Like this was my reality. And so whether it was fair or not, someone had to do the climbing and it was going to have to be me. And what I learned in that process is as I started climbing myself out and people saw that I was climbing and they saw that I was working towards something and then people, they offered to help.

And the help came in so many varieties and various ways. Um, I got accepted into a college, an MBA program that was extremely, extremely limited. And the way in which I got in was just a gift from someone after I had been rejected. So I got rejected into the program and I sent this letter, which was a very unpleasant letter but contained all of my life frustrations at that time.

And luckily someone saw through those life frustrations to the see the human behind that. And they said, I see the potential in you. I see the pain, but I'm willing to look beyond the pain. And so I was admitted into this very prestigious program. Uh, and so that opened up doors that I never could have imagined in my life.

And fascinating in the rear view mirror of life now, I see that had I have actually become a pilot when I was 21 years old, I wouldn't have become an author. And had I have not become an author, I wouldn't have had the chance to be part of this experience that I've been part of, which is so much more gratifying to me than anything that ever would have been the world of piloting.

Piloting was a means to an end. Piloting was, it's the only job I know that enables me to have a lot of time off and I get to travel for free. But there's so many ways to have time off and to travel for free. I just wasn't smart enough back then to realize what those options were. And so I think one of the big things is to realize in life, sometimes things are actually happening for a reason.

You just can't see what the reason is yet. Look for the doors that are opening in what seems like a moment when all the doors are being closed because there is something else happening. And that again, required me to look in the rear view mirror of life and figure that out. But I also have a quote that I will share with you.

This is something that one of my podcast guests shared and I treasure this quote. She's a top tier athlete and she is so driven that when she wasn't winning, it was catastrophic. So I either win or it's a massive loss

and

her coach helped her realize something different. She said, now through the work of my coach, she said, I'm either winning or I'm learning.

And

learning is what helps me win next time. And so now when I experience something that is what appears to be a very big loss, I don't look at it as a loss. I say, okay, what can I learn? I'm either winning or I'm learning. And I will literally say that phrase out loud and in my head constantly. And I use that even as like you were saying, like, oh, you look at this thing and it's the last thing you're thinking about while you're trying to go to bed.

Like this little phrase. Have this one in your personal toolkit. And if you're struggling with self condemnation or self judgment, when you're trying to go to sleep at night, say, I'm either winning or I'm learning. I'm either winning or I'm learning.

I love that so much.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's, that's a great perspective on life.

Yeah. And also, I mean, what you said, it's also, well, at least I heard it like taking action, right? Like don't sit on the couch and, you know, be devastated. Well, you can be sad and angry and all of that, but at the same time, look for the doors, take action, you know, keep going, take the next small, tiny step.

Even if you don't know, like what's behind door number four, you just want to get to door number one. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's easy. And this was the very unpleasant realization that I had when I was at the bottom and I was there for a year. Was that no one was going to get me out. Like I Oh yeah. Was going to require action on my part and Yeah.

You know, and

I mean, being down for years, a long time, right? Yeah. , that's, yeah.

It's, that's, but you start, that starts to become your normal is the problem,

right? Yeah. Yeah.

You're so, I mean, at, at that time, you don't know that it's

gonna be over, right? You think, okay, is it, is it gonna, is it, you know, go going on forever for 2, 3, 5, 10 years?

Yeah. Wow. That's. There's an interesting reality I've discovered as an athlete, and so I'm at the moment I have an injury, and I kept waiting, telling myself, as soon as it gets better, as soon as it feels better, then I'm going to start doing the physical rehab work. And finally I realized, no, it's actually the other way around.

The other way around, yeah. It's not going to get better until I start doing the physical rehab work. And the first Three or four weeks of the physical rehab are actually painful. Like there's a difference between pain that's making it worse and pain that's a part of the rehab. But I think that's part of life too, is when you're at the bottom, those first three, four weeks of trying to climb are the worst.

Like that's when it feels like it's the most painful. But that's when you need to climb the most. That's when you need to just put in the time because it's coming from that effort that it will start to feel better. And that took decades for me to figure out and learn.

I have another example for that. Um, it's the same with motivation.

People think I take action once I'm motivated, but the motivation comes from the first action that you take. You have to take the first action and then the motivation comes, then the fun comes and stuff. Sitting on the couch and waiting for motivation, like, where's it coming from? So they're exactly the same way.

It's the other way around. So you take action, then the motivation comes, then you take more action, then more motivation comes. But motivation is not, it's not that start.

Yeah, you're right. I would use the term for myself. Sampling victory or sampling success or sampling the experience and thankfully technology, like I just booked something I'm going to go actually something that's been on my life list for a lot of years.

I'm

going to go swim with whale sharks, which is the largest in the ocean. So it is on my list. And to your point of the way to sample this, the way to get inspired for this. Now with technology I could watch people's videos and so to see the pictures and see the videos it just reinforced for me I want to take all the steps necessary to make that reality part of my story

Yeah,

where if I never saw a picture if I never saw a video, it's very nebulous It's very it doesn't have much feeling to it And I think this applies to whether you want to be in better shape, whether you want to have a particular type of relationship, it definitely applies to the money aspect that we're talking about in life.

If you don't know what it feels like to be financially free or even on the path to financially free, it's hard to get motivated at the start. And so sampling these realities through other people's stories and other people's experiences is a great way to, as you said, not wait until the motivation strikes, but to get the motivation to then take the action.

Yeah. And speaking about taking action, guys, read this book. Because, uh, I know we've covered a lot of the questions that are actually in here, right? Probably like four or five without even like,

yeah,

exactly. So people out there, there's much more, uh, many, many more questions in here. And it's really interesting.

Um, there's also one that I liked in particular because I like my favorite, all time favorite story from your books is the Museum's Day. And there's one question in here that does every day have to be a great Museum's Day? And we're not going to cover the answer. People must read the book because it's, it's really book worth reading, like all of your books.

So, uh, yeah. And I'm also like, uh, very happy that there's still books coming from your right. You just keep writing and writing, like, Yes,

this one is entirely driven by the fans because I had been getting many questions for the years. That

was a concept, right? So you're, you're answering questions from your community.

And it's also very much inspired this entire conversation. I've realized at this point in my life, a single piece of information can be so transformative. You know, thing that took me decades to learn or figure out. And then once you know it, it opens up these doorways we've been talking about where before I saw, not only did I not see five doors, I didn't see that there was even a door frame.

I didn't see anything. It just looked like a giant wall of concrete in front of me. And yet that door was always there, but I needed the glasses or I needed the lens through which to see that the door was actually there. And so what I was trying to do with this book was to create. as many of these aha experiences that have taken me decades to figure out and make them available to people, in part because my daughter is 17.

And so I have a whole lot of teenagers at my house these days. And so I hear things about relationships. I hear things about jobs and things about what's my future going to be like. And it reminds me of back when I didn't know these things and wow, if only I would have known them at 17, 18, 25. And so that was part of the genesis for it too.

Yeah, I love it. And what would you say, who should read your book? Like in what life situation or when, you know, when does it have really high, um, kind of worth for me?

I, so I would say if you're in a bookstore, open up to the table of contents and look at it. And my guess is there are 46 questions. There's going to be at least a few of them that you're going to say, Oh, that's actually something I'm dealing with right now.

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks.

If, if that's the only question, so the seven to 10 pages that I answered that question or the only thing that you got out of the book, I firmly believe that you'd be like, that was totally worth the price of admission. And my guess is it's not just going to be one. And then my hope is much like we talked about before, that this is a book that sits on the nightstand and then a year when you're experiencing something different that you flip open the table of contents.

And you're like, huh. How about that? A year ago, I didn't care about this question, but now all of a sudden I'm very interested in how do I change my job or my relationship? Or how do I find more happiness? Or how do I deal with stress and anxiety more?

Yeah. And I think like the examples you just gave, I mean, they're, uh, I mean, it's for everybody, right?

I mean, you also talk a lot about happiness. Like what, what is happiness? How do I get more happy? Um, what is the meaning of life? I mean, those are big questions that everyone will. people are kind of reflecting on life and themselves. Um, we all need input for that. So, uh, yeah, thank you for actually writing this book.

I liked, I really liked it a lot and I've read a lot of your books and still the next one is, I'm like, well, is it going to be so different? But there's always something new in it. A new perspective, as you said, like very, very, yeah, you just have this, Uh, what I admire about your writing and also talking to you, it's always in a story, right?

You tell stories, like this whole interview, you told stories. And I was like, how does he do that? And I was like, can I do this now? Because it just sits with you, right? It's just, it's such a nice It makes listening so easy. It makes, you know, thinking with you so easy. And, uh, yeah, also, uh, thinking about the big, the big questions in life.

Um, this book makes it really easy to go about them. So thank you so much, um, for writing this and for talking to me about it as well. It's my pleasure. I'm very curious

because everybody who I've had the chance to talk to, I'm very curious. Do you remember when you looked at the table of contents, which were the one, two or three that you're like, Oh, that sounds interesting.

I'm going to look at that one.

Yeah, that's that were actually the ones that we talked about in this interview. That's what I wanted to do. So one was, how do I know it's time to make a change? Because I face the questions, also a lot of, I think all of us faces questions like, do I keep going? Or should I, you know, should I make a change?

And I think that's a challenging, challenging question. Like, how do I know it's the right time? And how do I keep going? And I'm, I'm a person, I'm very persistent, you know, I can, I can stay, I can stay in that long, long, which is a great strength of mine, but also a great weakness because I tend to stay too long.

Right. So how do I know it now? It's time to change. So I love what you also explained here with the six and the scale. And then, um, also does every day have to be museum stay. I was like, Oh, I love this. Museum stay analogy. And, uh, well, another one was, uh, I can't, I can't remember it, uh, right now what it was.

Um, but yeah, I think those were the, the, the biggest one that, yeah, is also how can I get rid of negative thoughts and what else? There was one other one. Uh, yeah, there was also, there was also a question from the community, like, what can I, like, how do I go about my life when I don't really know what I want?

I

found this interesting because it's, it doesn't really apply to me because I think I have a good, good sense of what I want in life. Um, but yeah, so I think that's, and a funny one, like, do you get inspired by fruit? I haven't read this yet. I was like, okay, wow.

There you go. Well, I hope you laugh your way through that one.

That was one that. Because there were some questions that I got that I was like, wait, what? Like, yeah,

yeah, okay. Yeah,

but it was fascinating. The so that one is one that people have said that made them laugh a lot. And that was one of the other joys I had in writing this type of book, is it enabled me to bring a degree of sort of fun personality to it.

Some of it, hopefully, has come through in other characters in my writing.

Um,

this one opened up a doorway that I thought, Oh, this will be really fun to sort of give a little more laughter and levity to the whole experience. Not every question, obviously, because some of them are super deep and super personal, but One's like, have you ever found inspiration from fruit?

Opened up the chance to be a little silly, which was fun.

Yeah. But still, I mean, I still think that also this book, I mean, big questions and deep stuff, but it's also like really easy read, right? It's not like, okay, wow. Yeah. Do I need to do this? take a week off to read this because it's so heavy stuff. I mean, it's big questions, it's deep questions, but still you manage it somehow, um, to, uh, yeah, write about it that lightly and that everybody can follow and that everybody, you know, can pause and reflect.

And it's not, It's not, I mean, I think it's challenging, like answering questions to be like from top down, you have to do like this and this and you have to do this and this and are you stupid? Why don't you do like this and this? So judgment kind of, and that it's what it's exactly not, right? So it's really open.

It's really, um, empathetic and yeah, considering the topics, um, really light read. So people go and, uh, read. Zeit fr Fragen, um, im Caf am Rande der Welt. Thank you so much, John.

You're welcome. And I would, I'll close by saying that my desire, my intention, my approach, I think is similar to yours in that I like to take a look at things that feel very complex and see if there's a way to explain it.

And it's all stuff that I struggled with first. And you and I getting to know each other, I hear the same. Your quest for financial awareness was based on your own desire to have knowledge, your own desire to understand the way the game is being played.

Exactly. How to win.

And so that's really the way that I approach these questions.

These life questions as well, I'm looking for what have I learned that actually made it simpler once I knew it and try and explain it in a way that's easy to implement, uh, because otherwise you're right, life just seems incredibly complex, but maybe it's not as complex if we can come up with simple examples and simple behaviors.

Yeah, and that makes it so hands on, right?

I try. And that's, I mean, that's what I love about the work that you do in the field that you've chosen to play in too, because the field of finance and personal finance can be one that is so daunting for people and so easy for people to want to make a difference.

And then they open the first page of the book in the first chapter and they already feel intimidated. They close it and they never go back to it, which is such a shame.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So yeah, when the, when, uh, the same field kind of, yeah, the same, the same mission. All right. Thank you so much, John.

Thank you for the book. Thanks for being on my podcast and, um, yeah, I'm pretty sure we will talk again.

I look forward to it. I'm going to try and convince you to come back to my podcast. Oh, I will. I will.

That's, that's not a hard game to convince me.

All right. Thanks, Natascha. Thank

you. Bye bye.